Dram Fools’ Whisky River is not an album that settles into a single identity. Instead, it expands across genres, textures, and emotional registers, drawing from jazz, R&B, American Songbook traditions, and Celtic influence without needing to fit into one defined space. What holds it together is not categorization, but intention. There is a shared commitment to letting each song become the fullest version of itself.
Formed during the pandemic, Dram Fools, made up of Bob and Gavin, built their creative foundation through long stretches of writing and collaboration. Over time, those sessions grew into something more ambitious: a 17-track album shaped by years of refinement and the contributions of over twenty musicians. What began as simple songwriting evolved into something expansive, layered, and deeply considered.
In this Creative Spotlight conversation, Dram Fools reflect on their genre-fluid approach, the role of time and trust in shaping their work, and how Whisky River became a project defined by growth, detail, and creative partnership.
This interview has been edited for clarity and flow.
Originally published on Creating Romancivity.
A Sound Built Without Boundaries
Dram Fools don’t begin with genre; they begin with instinct. Their sound is shaped by influence, curiosity, and a willingness to let each song dictate its own direction. That openness carries directly into how they think about classification, collaboration, and identity as a band.
You’ve described your sound as hard to pin down, with jazz, R&B, American Songbook, and Celtic influences prevalent. Do you actively resist genre labels, or is that just a byproduct of how you create?
Dram Fools (Gavin): Genre confusion seems to be a byproduct of how we create! Neither of us resists genre labels, but both Bob and I have diverse musical influences that seem to influence the songs that we write. With Whisky River, our goal was certainly to showcase our breadth of songwriting, but also to include songs that belonged together, and that typified the vocal-centric “Dram Fools” sound throughout. Hopefully, we achieved that. I think so.
Dram Fools (Bob): Agreed. We don’t go out of our way to avoid genres. We just have eclectic tastes, and the music comes out how it comes out. The question of how to categorize it is not really an issue for us. People often ask what genre we are, but “Dram Fools” is as good an answer as I’ve come up with.
With 21 musicians featured across these 17 songs, collaborating with other people was obviously a big part of the album-making process. How important is working with other artists to you, and what overall impact did these collaborations have on the album?
Dram Fools (Bob): Gavin and I both wanted to record the best possible iterations of our songs that we could, and we heard in our heads what we imagined it could be. We were lucky to have brought in some really talented people. We both gave them clear ideas of what we were going for and also let their talent shine through. The talent of the musicians flowing and interacting with each other really elevated the project. Also, Gavin is talented enough to be able to score for the many instruments featured on the album and write specific parts that really brought our songs to new heights. We couldn’t play all the instruments we wanted to hear, and were delighted with our collaborations with all those talented people we brought in.
Dram Fools (Gavin): For a few years in the late 90s, I worked at a CTS Studios, a world-class orchestral recording facility in London, UK. This was both a blessing (I’m very comfortable with the recording process) and a curse (every time I record, I try to make it as polished and professional as we could in that place!). So when Bob said we should record the very best version of our music that we could, I was thinking, “Challenge accepted! Does he know what he’s just let himself in for?” But that meant we had long discussions about what instruments we were hearing on the different songs. I got busy arranging, we brought in the best local musicians we could find – we were super-prepared for the recording sessions. I did a bunch of editing, and the mixing nearly drove our engineer, Ron, crazy! But the result was everything we had hoped for. These songs could not have become what they are without the strings, brass, percussion, bagpipes, and everything else.
As a two-person band, how do your individual perspectives shape the final version of a song?
Dram Fools (Bob): Dram Fools is a collaboration, and there is always a back-and-forth process. We have been lucky to have largely shared the same vision for our songs, and any varied ideas about direction in a song have been aided by mutual trust and respect. All ideas are discussed, tried, and weighed with the mutual decisions arrived at with the goal of what works best for the song. Our egos have never been an issue.
Dram Fools (Gavin): I entirely agree. We’re very lucky that our close friendship has only got closer through the making of this album. But we’re also lucky that our skills are complementary. Bob is an incredible lyricist. He can write songs that I never could. But I am stronger in finding interesting chord progressions and arranging the music. From there, we both work in tandem to make the final result as good as it can be, and if I suggest tweaking some words or Bob has different ideas about the musical feel of a bridge, we work together. It has never been a problem.
You both come from very different musical and personal backgrounds. How does that show up in your work?
Dram Fools (Bob): I believe our different backgrounds have been a plus in working together. The Venn diagram of our skills have some overlap, but I believe our strength comes as much from the complimentary nature of our abilities and sensibilities as the similarities. We both bring different things to the table, and it really seems to work.
Dram Fools (Gavin): True. Though I will add that it causes Bob’s girlfriend Diane quite some amusement that we sing with such different accents. Here we are trading lines back and forth, but Bob’s from inner-city Buffalo while I’m from rural southern England. Tomayto, tomahto!
You mentioned writing across the pandemic and then refining the material later. How did that time gap change the way you saw the songs?
Dram Fools (Gavin): I love this question. I think we quite regularly amazed ourselves that we kept finding ways to sculpt the songs over time that incrementally made them better and better. Given that we had been working on some of them for close to five years by the time we were in the recording studio, that’s a lot of tweaking! And often it was small stuff – change one word, harmonize one line where we previously hadn’t, that kind of thing. So the result was actually that the songs continued to feel alive and fresh for me, and I think that was really important when arranging them for recording. If we were not constantly motivated by our own material it would likely have come off as flat and uninspired.
Dram Fools (Bob): Yes. The process of time passing from the origins of our songs has benefitted them, and improvements and changes have occurred naturally and organically. There have been mutations that occur that just make sense, and changing things that weren’t necessarily immediately apparent enhanced the songs.
That contrast doesn’t just exist in their backgrounds, but in how the songs themselves evolve! Different instincts, different perspectives, and even different sensibilities are constantly being negotiated and reshaped over time.
You mentioned writing across the pandemic and then refining the material later. How did that time gap change the way you saw the songs?
Dram Fools (Gavin): I love this question. I think we quite regularly amazed ourselves that we kept finding ways to sculpt the songs over time that incrementally made them better and better. Given that we had been working on some of them for close to five years by the time we were in the recording studio, that’s a lot of tweaking! And often it was small stuff – change one word, harmonize one line where we previously hadn’t, that kind of thing. So the result was actually that the songs continued to feel alive and fresh for me, and I think that was really important when arranging them for recording. If we were not constantly motivated by our own material it would likely have come off as flat and uninspired.
Dram Fools (Bob): Yes. The process of time passing from the origins of our songs has benefitted them, and improvements and changes have occurred naturally and organically. There have been mutations that occur that just make sense, and changing things that weren’t necessarily immediately apparent enhanced the songs.
Letting the Songs Lead
Rather than forcing a singular tone or message, Dram Fools allows each track to develop on its own terms. That freedom creates a wide emotional range, where warmth, regret, humor, and reflection can coexist without needing resolution.
Across Whisky River, there’s a wide emotional range from love and warmth to regret and self-destruction. Was that contrast intentional when crafting the album, or did it naturally emerge from the songs?
Dram Fools (Bob): Good point in noticing that there is a range of emotional themes on the album. We let each song try to become the best version of itself, and the spectrum of feelings and themes was just a natural process of trying to be true to each song as it emerged and developed. There was never a master plan, other than trying to record the best possible iteration of each song.
Dram Fools (Gavin): “Write what you know” is extremely good advice. Most of the songs on the album tell a story that one or both of us have lived, and certainly that we can understand. So the content is real. For my part, Darkness into Light is the one song on the album where I wrote all the lyrics; it tells the story of the end of my marriage some years earlier. I knew for a long time that I needed to write that song, but it took years for me to do so. But it finally flowed when I was mentally ready. Contrast that with the irreverence and humor of I’m So Mad! So emotionally different, but still a real story.
That willingness to follow the truth of each song rather than impose a single emotional lens continued to shape how the album revealed itself over time.
Looking back now that the album is finished, do any songs feel different to you than when you first wrote them?
Dram Fools (Bob): Yes, and much of that comes from the terrific jobs that the talented musicians we worked with brought to the table. For example, the beautiful tenor sax/fiddle back and forth in Whisky River or the flugelhorn/clarinet conversations in November Song were revelations that happened in the studio. Also, the ability to add background vocals and sculpt the songs in post-production was transformative in sometimes subtle but important ways. The recording process was a revelation, as was turning the recordings into the finished product.
Dram Fools (Gavin): Bob’s answer is so gracious. What he meant to say was that the mixing process felt never-ending! But seriously, he’s right. While I had a very clear idea of what I was hoping for in the studio, I was blown away by what the musicians delivered. Probably the best example of a song ending up very different from how it was initially written is Morning, Noon, and Night. Bob actually wrote it many years ago, had the melody solid, and a pretty clear idea of what he wanted it to sound like in his head. But it took a LOT of work (and some straight-up mind-reading) for me to find the chords that he was imagining. If we ever got close to falling out about anything, that was probably the time! But after all that work, I knew it would have to be something special when we recorded it. So that’s the song where I scored 18 different parts to give it that orchestral sound. So much fun!
The Life Inside the Songs
If Whisky River is shaped by instinct and evolution, it’s ultimately defined by its details. Each song holds its own story and its own emotional logic – something that becomes clearer the deeper you listen!
Can you tell me a little about the story behind your name, Dram Fools, and behind your song, Whisky River?
Dram Fools (Bob): Our playing together and deciding to become a band occurred in the pandemic as a product of my girlfriend Diane and I both isolating, Gavin also isolating, and so the three of us deciding to “bubble.” We would get together on Saturdays, have dinner, play cards and board games, then around midnight Gavin and I would play music and drink Scotch until daybreak. Whisky was an element in our origin, and the drams (single servings of whisky) we consumed were a major factor in our process; thus, “Dram Fools.” The song Whisky River came out as it did without a moral in mind. I guess it does read as an ode to whisky as well as a cautionary tale, but without a pre-planned agenda.
Dram Fools (Gavin): It’s true. A terrible sleep pattern and copious Scotch whisky almost every Saturday night for five years might not sound like a recipe for success to everyone, but for us it worked! It didn’t hurt that Bob and Diane are both excellent cooks, so I’ve been eating extremely well every weekend, and continue to, to this day. After the pandemic I found myself in a new relationship, but fortunately my partner Donna, who is also a musician (she played the flute and piccolo for us on the album) took to our “Dram Foolery” like a duck to water. So the pattern continues, except now there are four of us, which gives us more options for card games!
That mix of sincerity and dry humor runs quietly through the project, showing up not just in the stories behind the songs, but in how they talk about them now.
What are each of your favorite songs from the album, and why?
Dram Fools (Bob): Damn! This is a really tough question. I love them all. Narrowing it to favorites, I would say Love Found Me (which I wrote for my girlfriend) because I love the feel and groove of it. I love Morning, Noon, and Night because it began as just a piano/vocal piece, but Gavin had the crazy vision of orchestrating it, as he mentioned earlier. I wrote the song while walking my dog one evening, and when I heard the first rough draft of what he had written, fully orchestrated, my eyes welled up, thinking of its humble beginnings and its transformation to the, in my opinion, sublime. Also Not Our Time. It started with me coming into the room at 3 a.m. and hearing Gavin playing this beautiful melody and asking what it was. He said, “Just some chords.” That was a major understatement! We recorded it on our phones, and I wrote some couplets that seemed to fit the feeling of the music, and I realized that the couplets had a story arc. I think it is one of the best examples of our musical chemistry at work and one of our best songs.
Dram Fools (Gavin): You may have noticed that Bob picks favorites like he picks whiskies—all of them! I feel his pain though. But to pinpoint one favorite with one clear reason, I will say Wait for the Sun. This one’s unique on the record because my mother Cindy, who lives thousands of miles away in the UK, wrote the lyrics. She sent them to me one day, saying, “Gavin, I think I’ve written a song, and I was wondering if you’d be interested in writing some music for it?” This wasn’t anything to do with Dram Fools, it was just a request out of the blue. Anyway, the music and words ended up coming together really well, so Bob and I started performing it together, and before we knew it, it was one of our stronger songs that we just knew had to be on the album. So I love how it came out with the string arrangement, but most of all, I love it because it’s a collaboration with my mother.
Is there a song that has the lyrics that you’re most proud of?
Dram Fools (Gavin): I already mentioned Darkness into Light, so this one’s all you, Bob.
Dram Fools (Bob): That’s also a tough question. I think maybe All We’ll Never Know might be a favorite, because of how it came together. Gavin wrote that haunting melody, and when I heard it, I had the image of a guy with his collar raised, walking in the cold. That image was the starting point, and I wrote that character’s story in about half an hour, and that was it. It was done, and seemed perfect. And Gavin’s vocal performance is amazing. I also think Writhe and Moan is kind of a sleeper. It’s an ode to sexuality and does exactly what I was trying to accomplish.
The Construction of Songs
If the emotional core of Whisky River comes from instinct and experience, the execution is just as intentional. Beneath the surface, the album is built through careful decisions, technical challenges, and a willingness to push songs further than they initially seem to allow.
Which songs were easiest versus most difficult to produce, and why?
Dram Fools (Bob): Because of its stark simplicity, All We’ll Never Know was easily the simplest. The most difficult was ABSOLUTELY The Legend of Dram Fools. We weren’t sure it was even going to be recordable, due to its incorporation of bagpipes, which are not exactly key-friendly, and the acceleration of tempo, which was no small challenge. Also, the crazed section of howling at the moon was an accomplishment. This self-mythologizing song was a lot to take on, but somehow, against all reason, it came together.
Dram Fools (Gavin): Absolutely. Legend (as we call it) was definitely the most complex. We debated for quite some time whether or not to even try using real bagpipes on the recording, or to just stick with the sound on my keyboard. But I had never arranged for or recorded pipes before, so it seemed like a fun endeavor! Unfortunately I had written the song in a key that the bagpipe drone doesn’t do. So first we tuned everyone else up to be in tune with the piper, had her (the bagpiper) mute the drone and play just the chanter for the melody line. Once that was done, I asked her to stand and just drone for six minutes on a separate track. Dolly was so sweet, but to that request she said, “Are you shitting me?” Well, she did it, we took that and pitch-changed it down roughly a minor third, and when we heard the tracks together for the first time, I knew that we would be able to make the whole song work. What a trip!
But even in their most technically demanding moments, the focus never drifts too far from the emotional center of the songs themselves – something that becomes especially clear in the more intimate tracks.
Halfway Home has some of the most beautiful lyrics! And it feels grounded in partnership and rebuilding, like finding stability in someone else. How did you approach writing a song that feels so steady and reassuring compared to some of the heavier themes on the album?
Dram Fools (Gavin): Definitely one for you, Bob!
Dram Fools (Bob): Thanks! That was a song I wrote initially with our talented bass player, Taylor Ricks, and his wife, Lauren, in mind. They perform as a duo, and I thought it might be something they would do. They never did, but Gavin asked if he might do a reimagining of it, which I was thrilled about, and I love the new melody and his arrangement of it. Sometimes, we’re lucky enough to find someone we can believe in and trust when we’ve been knocked down emotionally, and I think this song is an honest take on love and regaining ourselves.
And Love Found Me – In this song, love feels like something that happens to you rather than something you choose. Do you see love in this song as fate, coincidence, or something more?
Dram Fools (Gavin): Definitely another one for you, Bob, you old romantic!
Dram Fools (Bob): Interesting question. I absolutely feel that love is something that is beyond choice. You can’t manufacture it. It just happens. Whatever the ineffable process is, when it comes, love kicks your door down, and we can acknowledge it, but can’t make it happen. I don’t presume to know what is or isn’t fated, and coincidences may be involved. But it seems to be a mystical occurrence that we encounter, if we’re lucky enough to have it happen.
Now, Not Our Time, which is my favorite song on the album! It feels very final, but also conflicted, as if knowing something is over while still questioning it. How do you approach writing endings that don’t feel clean or resolved?
Dram Fools (Bob): It may sound weird, but my process of songwriting is more about trying to figure out what the song wants to be, rather than having a preconceived idea that the song conforms to. In Not Our Time there is a lack of resolution, but if it feels right for the song, then so be it. I love that song too, and there is a sense of the narrator both being conflicted and trying to go forward knowing there is a tough road ahead that can’t be ignored or avoided. You can’t always put a tidy bow on something, because songs, like life, sometimes lack a clear resolution.
Dram Fools (Gavin): I’m delighted that this is your favorite song on the album! It is absolutely one of my favorites, too, both to play and to listen to. As one of the first songs that we wrote together from scratch, I feel like it captures the essence of the Dram Fools writing and musical style, and I’m so happy with how the vocal harmonies came out in it. It came together relatively quickly, but we found very early on that it didn’t want to resolve back to the tonic. That would have undermined the whole emotion. So instead, we hang on that last chord for a moment, then launch right into Hold On which—though quite different in energy—is the sibling of Not Our Time. They have been performed together ever since! We like the contrast of the emotions like yin and yang: the end of a relationship that cannot work, followed by the energy and hope of a vibrant new one. And it’s a reminder that whatever happens, the future is ahead of us and there’s always more to live for.
What Remains
For all its detail, range, and complexity, Whisky River ultimately invites something simple: time. It’s an album built to be lived with, not just heard once.
So, what do you hope listeners take away from the album after sitting with it front to back?
Dram Fools (Bob): I hope enjoyment is the big takeaway, but also I hope that the eclectic range of songs, the varied vibes and emotions – but all having a common center – give a sense of the love, creativity, and care for the quality of the music that went into creating the final product. Seventeen songs are a lot to take in, but hopefully the journey through the album is full of pleasant surprises for our listeners and rewards a close listen.
Dram Fools (Gavin): Mostly, I hope that listeners are pleasantly surprised and impressed by the album, and that they find a favorite song among the collection. It always fascinates me that so many people pick a different song as their favorite. A few months ago, we wanted to enter one song from the album into a local music competition, so we asked our listeners what their favorite cut on the album was to see if there was a clear winner. Nope. The votes were literally all over the place!
And what’s the first impression you’d like a new listener to have of your music?
Dram Fools (Gavin): I’d like the first impression to be, “Oh nice! Vocal-centered well-written songs!” But because I know how much thought and effort went into each song, I want the second impression to be, “Oh, I didn’t notice that before.” And the third to be, “And I didn’t notice that either…” and so on. If this album can continue to be a journey of discovery long after the first couple of plays, that would be a big success for me. One quick example: listen to Halfway Home. Did you notice the flute and bass having a conversation near the end? A good set of headphones helps bring out those nuances.
(I did, in fact, notice! It’s clear how much care Dram Fools pour into every detail within their songs, even when hearing the album for the first time!)
Dram Fools (Bob): I want the first impression to be that there is a variety of musical experiences and pleasure to be had here, and a lot to take in and enjoy. Much thought and feeling went into this, and hopefully, it rewards the listener who dives in.
I certainly think it does. What makes Whisky River compelling isn’t just its range, but the intention behind it. Dram Fools don’t force cohesion; they allow it to emerge, shaped by time, collaboration, and a willingness to let each song take the lead in deciding what it needs to be.
The result is an album that feels expansive and detailed without becoming overwhelming, and deeply human in the way it embraces both structure and unpredictability.
It’s an album I’ll be revisiting again and again, which is why I’m grateful for the kindness of Dram Fools in gifting it to me! I can’t wait to give it a play in my mom’s favorite old CD player, which I think is exactly the kind of listening experience this project invites!
Whisky River by Dram Fools is out now across all major streaming platforms.
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Thanks so much for reading!
Much love <3
Thank you so very much for your interest in our album and for this interview, Matilia. Your questions were deeply thought-provoking, and you were an absolutely pleasure to work with. We both so appreciate it and wish you every success in the future.
Gavin and Bob — Dram Fools
You’re beyond welcome and I adored learning about your project! Thank you so much for the opportunity <3
What a great article!!!!!! Thank you!!
Thank you so much!